OPEN LETTER TO NETMUMS & FRIENDS

Dear Netmums and Others,

Thank you so much for featuring my blog ‘What’s Your Brand of Crazy?‘ on your website as Blog of the Day yesterday (6th July 2015). It’s always great to hear that people like what you’re putting out there and of course, to be featured on such a prominent, popular and successful site such as Netmums is great exposure for me and the blog. So that’s nice.

The problem is, exposure doesn’t pay the bills. Unsurprisingly, I usually charge to create content for websites, especially very successful ones like yours. Occasionally, if I feel there is real merit to it and benefit from it, I may agree to provide content for a discounted cost or for no charge at all but that very much depends on you asking nicely. Obviously.

While I appreciate your email yesterday morning informing me that you were going to use my blog on your site, I feel you were a little remiss in assuming that would be ok. A simple, “Would you mind if we took your original content and copied it to fill up our website and give our readers something cool to read?” would have sufficed.

You see, writing is my skill. It’s kind of my ‘thing’ and while it may not be as tangible as other things that people ‘make’ and ‘sell’, I do make it and therefore it is mine to sell, or give away. I’m sure you wouldn’t just walk up to an independent seller at a craft stall who was selling beautiful jewellery, for example, and say, ‘Hey, I’m going to take this if that’s ok? It’s really cool and I think you should just give it to me? Don’t worry, I’ll tell loads of people about it.’ I’m not saying you couldn’t do that; you totally could it’s just that the police would most likely have something to say about it because, last time I checked, taking stuff without asking is illegal. Some call it stealing.

Of course, in the interests of self-promotion, I know lots of brands and bloggers that do choose to give some of their stuff away to people for free in a kind of ‘I’ll scratch your back; you scratch my back’ kind of way. I also give some of my words away for free as well sometimes…there are lots of people who have asked really nicely if I would mind providing content and they are so lovely and polite and kind and not arrogant at all, and they’re generally working their butts off on their own start-up project too so, of course, I don’t mind.

But, and forgive me if you think I’m being ungrateful here, it kind of sucks when an uber successful, well-established site with a whopping 85 staff working behind the scenes, eight published books under their belt, OBEs for the founders, a healthy advertising income,  1.7 million members and 473 meet up organisers around the country can’t bring themselves to offer  writers a small stipend for the words that they take and fill up their website with.

I realise I’m burning a Netmums bridge but that’s not what’s important. It’s not like it earns me any money. What’s important is that we start rewarding people for the work they do. Maybe you do pay some bloggers, I don’t know. All I know is that you didn’t pay me, you didn’t offer to pay me and you didn’t even ask if I was alright with you reproducing content on your site. If I was writing songs instead of blogs, nobody, not even the mighty Taylor Swift could use it without paying me a whole heap of moolah for it. I don’t want a whole heap of moolah (although that would be nice). I just want to conduct business in the normal way: I provide a service, you pay for it. Supply and demand…I’m sure you’ve heard of it, right?

I could, of course, have said ‘no’ to you yesterday. I could have said, “Hang on a motherfunking minute…you can’t have my words and recreate them on your site and not pay me anything for it because (and I’ll put this really simply for you), it’s stealing,” but it seemed more fun to let you behave badly so that I could publicly reprimand you for such naughty behaviour.

Tut tut Netmums. You know what? Create your own content or pay other people properly to fill your site for you, but don’t just take it and assume it’s ok. Everything I write is time, it’s energy, it’s experience, it’s skill. It’s worth something and if you like it enough to want to feature it on your site then you should dang well like it enough to pay me a little money for it. There are too many bloggers out there who feel they have to bow down to mighty organisations and let them take their writing – I mean it’s exposure after all, right? – but it’s time for us all – writers, bloggers, whoever – to stand up and say, “I made it. You want it. Pay me for it please and thank you.”

Simples.

However, you’ve caught me in a good mood and if you happen to be looking for content, perhaps you’d like to reprint this blog? You know what…I’m feeling generous. You can have this one for free.

Cat Sims
www.notsosmugnow.com


Reply received from Kate Gunn (Netmums) on July 7th 2015:

Hi Cat,

I’m Kate and I help manage the Bloggers Network for Netmums.

Rachel has been in touch to notify me of your concerns on having one of your posts featured on Netmums.

Firstly I’d like to apologise for any upset it has caused you. I know that you feel strongly about the issue and as a blogger I understand your issues.

However when we began featuring our Blog of the Day posts in May we notified all our members via a newsletter, stating clearing that –

Our Blog of the Day picks will appear on Netmums with a full link back to your blog, and will be shared across our extensive social media accounts. 

It you would rather your blog be omitted from the Blog of the Day programme just let us know by mailing us at bloggers@netmums.com

Our T&C’s also reflect the same, however we are sorry if that wasn’t clear to you.

Many of our members love being featured, but as this is not the case for you I have removed the post from Netmums and will notify all parties that you would rather not be featured in future. If you would like me to remove you from the Bloggers Network to ensure you are not linked to Netmums in any way please do let me know.

Good luck in your blogging journey.

Kate

Kate Gunn
Freelance writer, Blogger, Netmums Blogger Outreach


Dear Kate
Thank you for your email and for taking the time to clarify some issues.
However, just because you make it clear that you will use blogs as content for free doesn’t make it right. It’s quite simple…I’m sure you don’t work for free and I don’t understand why bloggers are expected to. I’m sure you expect to be paid for the space your advertisers take up on your site? It’s not rocket science.
I believe you are abusing your position as a corporate giant within the industry to get content for free when you could and should afford to pay for it. It’s immoral and while I’m sure lots of bloggers are over the moon to be featured I have met many who are sick of handing over free content to you. I have also met many who blog for fun and have never written before (but are bloody good at it) and perhaps don’t even consider that they should be receiving renumeration for their work – you take advantage of them. Either commission original material and pay for it properly or write it yourself.
You can be as passive aggressive as you like with your thinly veiled and somewhat arrogant threats but what you seem to forget is that we don’t need Netmums to be successful in what we do.
So thank you for removing my content from your site. The extra 100 or so hits it got my site is nothing compared to the ‘booming’ stats I have had today from my open letter. In the interests of transparency I will also be publishing our ongoing conversation.
It’s a shame you are not prepared to just do the right thing.
Cat

54 thoughts on “OPEN LETTER TO NETMUMS & FRIENDS

  1. Actually Mummy says:

    Wow. So you’re not registered with their blogger network to help you promote your blog? Being featured as their blog of the day doesn’t help you increase views?

    I think this is a very unprofessional and unfair way to deal with a complaint. You had plenty of time to say no thank you, or ask for payment.

    Not cool.

    Like

    • catsims says:

      Hi actually mummy…no, not registered with blogger network. And no, it didn’t bump up views…maybe by 100-150 or so but nothing significant at all. What’s unprofessional is a successful company like Netmums relying on free content when they should be supporting bloggers and writers in their craft.

      Like

  2. Dot says:

    Plus, just to throw it out there, everything you write on this site is owned by WordPress not you as you don’t own your url. I think you need to start reading the T&Cs on stuff love.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. Lucy Benedict says:

    So when you wrote the first post that became blog of the day, how much did you pay yourself? Because it seems to me you wrote the post for free, no one commissioned you to. You put it on here for free. Netmums gave you two clear opportunities to turn down free publicity, you didn’t take them, and now you’re using it to gain more traffic. I’ve visited more than once today to check what I’ve read. Visits don’t equal agreement.

    I have to agree with Actually Mummy that you do seem unprofessional. Is this the way you want to come across to potential clients?

    Like

  4. Dave says:

    Aside from the page views, the netmums link would have been highly valuable for SEO. This would have increased your domain authority and therefore made your site more valuable to commercial sites to leverage by paying you to create content to link to them.

    You need to better educate yourself on how two parties can create value for each other without money changing hands.

    Like

    • catsims says:

      I appreciate what you’re saying Dave and don’t think I don’t understand that. I do. It still doesn’t mean I’m happy about the way they operate.

      Like

      • Lucy Benedict says:

        Erm… I’m nothing to do with Netmums. Don’t assume we’re defending a site we don’t use. You may have had a decent point to begin with, that Netmums should follow the Mumsnet approach of linking to the post, not using it in full on their own website, but you lost me when you demanded you should be paid for something you chose put on the internet for free by your own choice, which would have brought you attention.

        Like

      • catsims says:

        I never said you were anything to do with Netmums. Just because I posted it on the internet does not mean someone else has the right to use it without agreeing some sort of recompense. It’s still content that I own the rights to. I have a friend who makes beautiful jewellery. Just because she puts it out in a shop within the reach of people who like it doesn’t mean they can just take it. She can, of course, choose to give it to them but in general, if people want it they have to buy it. It’s not rocket science.

        Like

      • Lucy Benedict says:

        But you had the opportunity to say no, and you didn’t. And you didn’t ask anyone to pay you for the original post. You got free publicity, and you’re kvetching about it, instead of thinking about the impression you’re giving to people who may have liked your writing style.

        Money doesn’t have to change hands for an exchange to take place.

        Like

      • catsims says:

        No of course not…but a conversation does have to take place. No conversation was elicited by Netmums; just an email telling me they published it as blog of the day. It’s really very simple: they are taking content without asking or paying for it. I got no free publicity. Trust me – my content was available on the site for about 12 hours overnight. Any publicity I have got is from my own writing that is resonating (or not!) with other bloggers and I could have written that post without Netmums getting all grabby on my content. It just so happened that they did at a time when I’d just had a conversation with another blogger who was just as sick of it.

        Like

  5. Ashley Beolens says:

    Wow you seem to be getting a slating for reminding quite a large business that they should have asked your permission to use your content,and really could afford to pay for it, shame really doesn’t seem to me that you are in the wrong here, keep up the good fight 🙂

    Incidentally Netmums you are free to make my blog posts blog of the day 🙂

    Liked by 2 people

  6. Lucy Benedict says:

    I still think you’re missing the point. You wrote that post for free. You could have said no to free publicity that was your blogpost being shared by a website that has huge traction. You didn’t. Instead you used it to gain more traffic via this post. Maybe Netmums have behaved dishonourably by not linking directly to the post. But they still shared it.

    Do you demand that people pay you for retweeting? Or sharing on facebook? Or via email? It’s exactly the same. They’re bringing you new readers. And your response is doing you no favours. You don’t have to grovel gratefully, but this wasn’t someone stealing your paid work.

    Like

    • catsims says:

      We obviously don’t understand each other. I didn’t ‘write that post for free’. I wrote that post, because that’s what I do as a blogger – I write posts. I can do what I like with my work and my writing. Netmums, however don’t have that right. Just like a song writer writes a song, or an author writes a book. They don’t ‘pay themselves’ to do it…they do it because they’re good at it and if someone else thinks they’re good at it then perhaps they’ll have the chance to make a living out of it.

      I didn’t ‘use’ it to gain more traffic for this post (although thank you for all the engagement) and it’s not the same as retweeting or sharing. People who retweet or share are not reproducing your content on their own site without permission. They are directing new people to your site because they think what you do is pretty cool, or not, or controversial or worth talking about. It’s completely different.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Lucy Benedict says:

        I think we’re coming at this from completely different points of view. I’m a blogger too, I write posts. But if someone shares my post, via whatever medium, I’m grateful. I wouldn’t attack them. I’d thank them for sharing my work, and hopefully gaining me more readers whom I can enjoy engaging with. They have the right to do that, even if they say ‘Oh my fucking good god, look at this shit.’

        And actually Netmums do have that right. You didn’t tell them they didn’t, having received their email. And if it bothered you so much, then you should have. Instead, you’ve got traffic. But you may have lost work.

        And I should say thank you, that you’ve accepted criticism and responded to it. Not many would 🙂

        Like

      • catsims says:

        We are coming at this from different points of view – which is fine. We have different beliefs about this which is, of course, also fine. We disagree about the fact that Netmums can take content to fill their site with. Let’s face it -they do it because it makes Netmums a place where people can go to read great blogging. They benefit the most from this – it may send a few new reader to a blog but in general those people will return to Netmums in the knowledge that they’ll separate the wheat from the chaff. Netmums are doing the filter work for them and they don’t have to look any further. Either way – I appreciate your comments and it’s refreshing to disagree with someone without it descending into nastiness x

        Like

    • npa30 says:

      they were not sharing her post Lucy they were duplicating it. Not the same as sharing a FB post or and RT that links to the original content. Just scraping the whole lot and putting it on their site for free content. Perhaps you think that is ok but most creative professionals would not

      Liked by 1 person

  7. npa30 says:

    I totally support what you are saying. What all the net mums brigade are failing to see is that this blog is your intellectual PROPERTY. This may not have a value in money but for someone to REPRODUCE your work in full (not a link back) is content theft. So please ignore the haters. I simply cannot see how they cannot get into their heads that if you create content then as a ‘creation’ it is a thing. Same as writing a recipe, writing a book or essay. Ridiculous comments from those mummies at the top of this thread.

    Like

  8. npa30 says:

    I also imagine google takes a dim view of duplicate content. And also, with the power of a website such as net mums I bet they’d come up higher in search rankings than you could for your content.

    Like

    • Joy says:

      I can see and understand where both sides are coming from. I don’t think you writing a post about the matter is wrong either hit I think the emails should have been kept private. Just because Kate works for Netmums doesn’t mean she shares their view on content sharing. I’d prefer if they provided link back and a short text saying why they think it a post should be blog of the day thank to copy the whole thing because Google does penalise for duplicate content. Both parties could have gained from this with money being involved but due to the assumption by net mums no one has. I’d advice Netmums in the future to ask for permission without assuming it’s a given and possibly highlight what the blogger might gain from the feature. Simples.

      Like

      • Actually Mummy says:

        Google does penalise duplicate content, however, as far as I’m aware blogging organisations who reproduce content use a mechanism which ensures it’s not flagged with search engines on their site (I forget the tech term) so that the original author retains all the copyright and search attributes. That’s how Tots 100 works when they do this, so I assume they all do the same.

        Like

      • catsims says:

        That’s interesting. I’d like to know if they do that. I still think they are pushing the boundaries of what is morally acceptable. A huge organisation should be leading by example in the same way that mumsnet are with link backs or slummy mummy with payment.

        Like

      • Actually Mummy says:

        Actually Cat, I don’t disagree with you on the principles of your argument. I think it’s a healthy debate to have, and one which could benefit all bloggers. However I’m really sad that you’ve chosen to do it in such an aggressive and manipulative way. It could have been a really useful post, but instead it just looks unprofessional, and that’s a shame.

        Liked by 2 people

      • catsims says:

        I appreciate your post but disagree that it’s aggressive and manipulative. Sticking your head above the parapet is always risky and won’t please everyone and sometimes you’ve got to cause a stir to start a debate. At the very least this has got people talking for that I think it’s worthwhile. But I recognise that challenging something is only the first step in changing something. If you’re prepared to blow something up, you’ve got to hang around for the clean up which is what this ongoing debate is. Thank you for being involved in a cool way x

        Like

      • npa30 says:

        I disagree that your approach was unprofessional. What is disappointing is other bloggers being so rude to you.
        This is your blog, your space to say what you want. If they disagree because they cannot see the logic of your annoyance then they should remember you are not a corporation but a human being with feelings. Perhaps they should think before they write – but it is easy to be harsh online.
        If this was a big company taking your content then I imagine people would not have such an issue with this. Yet why is Netmums so sacrosanct that you cannot complain? if you had published emails from a corporation then people would possibly be ok with this but because it is a person they probably know then they are angry with you. Whilst the person you communicated with was a blogger, you communicated with her in her capacity as a Netmums representative. I am sure she is lovely and you were not criticising her but the Netmums approach.

        Liked by 1 person

  9. Amy Ransom says:

    Goodness, where to start? Firstly, Cat, I really respect you for being brave enough to say what a lot of bloggers are thinking. This debate is so interesting. Now I’ve given up work to concentrate on writing (oh and raising 3 kids ha ha), I’m finding it incredibly difficult to get paid for anything. Because everyone writes for free. I have been Mumsnet and Netmums BOTD many times. I’ve never found Netmums to bring me much until last week when they posted my terrorism piece and I got over 150 FB likes. That is value. To me. I think the point about them posting the full piece is very valid as there are issues with duplication and Google. It would be better if they treated BOTD like Mumsnet. I have mentioned this to Kate at Netmums and it is being looked into.

    The other issue is original content. What we are posting on our blogs is for our own blogs and traffic. I’m not sure we can expect to get paid for something we haven’t written specifically for them. I do believe, however, that we should be paid if we write something FOR a website. As an example, Scary Mommy have just started paying 100 dollars for original posts. I think this is amazing and a step in the right direction. But it has to be original content. Not something that has already been on our blog (they will still feature this but just not pay for it.)

    I read this article a while back when I was feeling a bit hard done by and it really helped clarify things for me http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/10/huffington-post-bloggers_n_821446.html. Because at the end of the day I am writing when I want, how I want and that is something that is priceless to me right now. But it is different for everyone.

    I’m seeing the results now of ‘exposure’ on other websites like Netmums, Huff Post etc in that I’m getting more opportunities, which ARE paying. I still want to be paid to write, first and foremost, and am hoping that day will come…

    I think this is the perils of everyone wanting to write and so many being good at it.

    I love your blog by the way and think you write brilliantly. You also debate very well, as someone else said, lots of other people wouldn’t have replied.

    x

    PS eek, I’m now late for school because this is obviously more interesting (important) than serving up weetabix…

    Liked by 1 person

  10. Amanda Masters (@girlgonecoastal) says:

    This has been a bit of an eye opener for me, I had no idea net mums reproduced in full and didn’t have back links, seems a rather ridiculous way of highlighting a particular blog post.
    I can fully understand why you’re pissed, thankfully my blog posts aren’t at all appealing to sites like net mums so I don’t have to worry about this happening to me.

    Like

  11. Alison @ Not Another Mummy Blog says:

    I had a similar situation with Netmums recently where they republished a post of mine without letting me know. I do think they need to change the way they run the blog network, and only publish part of a post, with a link through to read the rest on the original blog.

    I’m curious – what made you write this blog post about it, rather than contact them privately about your concerns?

    Like

    • catsims says:

      I wrote it because I wanted people to talk about it. I know loads of bloggers who have had this conversation with them via private email and that’s not good enough. I wanted to start a conversation – I haven’t done everything right but I have got people talking about it and that’s important I think?

      Like

  12. Rachel says:

    Do Netmums really just scrape and publish the whole post in full? (I’ve just checked, and yes, it seems they do). And yet, they say “Our Blog of the Day picks will appear on Netmums with a full link back to your blog, and will be shared across our extensive social media accounts.” Seems a bit misleading to me; that quote implies that they will link to a specific post and send readers to the blog in question.

    I can see why you are irritated, and why one might not have interpreted their quote above to be the way that the content has been shared. In particular this would irritate me as duplicate content is bad for both sites and both could be penalized by Google, so whilst I too would probably have not had a problem in theory when I received the notification they might link to posts, I would also have been very irritated to have my content scraped. So far as payment is concerned, if Netmums were linking to my specific post without scraping my content, I wouldn’t expect payment. If I was commissioned to write something for a site I would expect remuneration, and I would expect there to be a discussion, if, say, The Guardian looked at my blog post and asked to reproduce it. As you say, Netmums is a commercial site.

    So far as the other commenters go, I do agree that being linked to from other sites can be good for some stats, and can be good exposure, but I don’t agree that this makes Netmums to be in the right just because they’ve told you they might. I especially disagree with the commenter above that says because you wrote your post “for free” other people are entitled to scrape and use your content because they link to your blog. Just because you weren’t paid for this post doesn’t mean that it somehow becomes free content for other people to make money from it. Netmums are not “sharing your post” – they are using other people’s content to promote their own site. It may have the side effect that a few people bother to click on your blog link to see who you are, or like the style of writing so want to see what else you wrote, but I would imagine that those clicks do not number many.

    Like

  13. Rachel (@peacockfeather) says:

    Do Netmums really just scrape and publish the whole post in full? (I’ve just checked, and yes, it seems they do). And yet, they say “Our Blog of the Day picks will appear on Netmums with a full link back to your blog, and will be shared across our extensive social media accounts.” Seems a bit misleading to me; that quote implies that they will link to a specific post and send readers to the blog in question.

    I can see why you are irritated, and why one might not have interpreted their quote above to be the way that the content has been shared. In particular this would irritate me as duplicate content is bad for both sites and both could be penalized by Google, so whilst I too would probably have not had a problem in theory when I received the notification they might link to posts, I would also have been very irritated to have my content scraped. So far as payment is concerned, if Netmums were linking to my specific post without scraping my content, I wouldn’t expect payment. If I was commissioned to write something for a site I would expect remuneration, and I would expect there to be a discussion, if, say, The Guardian looked at my blog post and asked to reproduce it. As you say, Netmums is a commercial site.

    So far as the other commenters go, I do agree that being linked to from other sites can be good for some stats, and can be good exposure, but I don’t agree that this makes Netmums to be in the right just because they’ve told you they might. I especially disagree with the commenter above that says because you wrote your post “for free” other people are entitled to scrape and use your content because they link to your blog. Just because you weren’t paid for this post doesn’t mean that it somehow becomes free content for other people to make money from it. Netmums are not “sharing your post” – they are using other people’s content to promote their own site. It may have the side effect that a few people bother to click on your blog link to see who you are, or like the style of writing so want to see what else you wrote, but I would imagine that those clicks do not number many.

    Like

  14. (Mostly) Yummy Mummy says:

    I am really struggling to understand why you would take such an aggressive stance? Like you said yourself, you could have just said no! Surely the best (and certainly most professional) way to deal with your concerns would have been with Netmums in private?

    Liked by 2 people

    • catsims says:

      I know many bloggers who have done that and nothing is changing. They are operating in a shady way and the point of this post was to get it out there and get people talking. It’s not aggressive…it’s a starting point, a debate, a discussion. Why are Netmums so sacrosanct? Why can’t we challenge them?

      Like

      • (Mostly) Yummy Mummy says:

        I’m not sure that what they are doing is shady to be honest. The terms and conditions couldn’t be clearer. I’m all for debate trust me! I speak as somebody who has questioned other blogger networks in the past and faced huge backlashes for doing so! I guess I think it’s a shame that this gripe couldn’t have been handled in a less aggressive way. And I’m sorry but writing this is aggressive!

        Like

      • catsims says:

        Just because they have written it in their T&Cs doesn’t make it right. It might mean that they are legally exempt from any issues but it’s still a crappy way to work. Plus these were T&Cs I never signed up to. I’m not (knowingly!) a member of Bloggers Network. I don’t receive newsletters…

        Like

  15. hurrah for gin says:

    Hey cat I had a similar conversation with them the other day, I think you are having a little bit of a rough response here.
    I totally didn’t agree with them informing me they were going to use my content without asking as as such I refused. In my experience people don’t care where the content is coming from and the return visits are minimal thus there is no tangible advantage of being featured.
    If anything I feel I would rather keep all of my own original content on my own space, it gives people a reason to follow my blog specifically rather than just follow the big networks. if anything it can feel like a disadvantage as they like to republish recent blogs that I am still getting good traffic from myself.
    I guess it’s each to their own though – if some bloggers don’t mind fair play. They are unlikely to pay for what people will happily provide for free. Mumsnet’s approach is much fairer IMO, Netmums should follow suit and properly reward the blogger with the traffic they deserve.
    Katie x

    Like

  16. Mrs Tubbs says:

    This has been shared on FB and I wrote this there. I’m a great believer in not saying things behind people’s back so here goes …

    Your central argument is that blog posts are copyright material / intellectual property and shouldn’t be reproduced without asking first / offering payment. I agree with you 100%. I’ve noticed a few bloggers have started putting disclaimers on all their posts in tiny type: “This post originated at site url. If you’re reading it elsewhere, it’s been stolen, violating my copyright. Please don’t just take my content. If you’d like to use it elsewhere, contact me first”. Now I know why.

    The response you got implies that material is only reproduced from bloggers who’ve registered with them and and this is in the T&Cs. IF you registered there is no complaint. Sorry! The takeaway for everyone is to read the small print carefully when signing up for any blogging networks. Decide whether the exposure that being part of that network gets you is worth giving up full control of your content.

    IF you didn’t, as you claim, ever register then they’re relying on the fact that most bloggers can’t afford to sue for copyright infringement. Which is a bit meh …

    Like

  17. GlennSum says:

    Keep up the fight Cat, this content is yours. Regardless of t’s+c’s they shouldn’t be reproducing it without requesting your permission. Ideally they should pay you for it.

    It’s called being a responsible member of society, of you value something don’t seek to undermine that value.

    Like

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